Dallas (1978-1991)

The original of the big time, big money soaps. They had the greatest opening of all the soaps. The Ewings were wealthy, yet they dressed and lived fairly middle class lives, at least in the beginning. Sue Ellen was amazing, both drunk and sober. Miss Ellie was the mother everyone wished they had, except that season where she morphed into Donna Reed. JR's legacy continues to be felt in TV today, since he was the first real anti-hero to become the popular star of a show, now they are everywhere. Share your love and memories of one of the GREATEST shows ever.

You can now stream the show, for free, on the Amazon Prime app, even if you are not a member, on the imdb freedive channel.

Loved Pam but always wished they'd developed and focused on Donna Krebbs as a character much as they did Pam, would also have liked Donna and Pam to have interacted more.

One of the biggest mistakes they made in my opinion, was killing off Digger Barnes. Imagine if after Jock's death, Miss Ellie had married Digger instead of Clayton. JR never liked Clayton and fought with him, but he would have lost his mind if she could have married Digger and installed him at South Fork.

AND I THINK YOU'RE UNDER-REACTING MRS. WENTWORTH!!

Victoria was beautiful, but her portrayal of Pam was lackluster.

I didn’t realize the show ran from 1978 to 1991. That’s quite a while!

J. R. was a big ol' meanie!

The hottest Ewing was Gary.

I miss the days when guys (especially celebrities) would wear speedos without thinking twice.

Agreed r8 Ted Shackleford was a babe!

One little known link between the two first successful primetime soaps. Linda Gray was in the cast of the Peyton Place reunion movie "Murder In Peyton Place" before becoming Sue Ellen on Dallas. Also, apparently Dorothy Malone was approached to be the second Miss Ellie, before Donna Reed.

I don't think Victoria Principal enjoyed playing Pam towards the end.

R11 As a viewer I didn't enjoy watching her either.

It’s too bad the reboot didn’t go longer. They should’ve brought back Kit Mainwaring, III, Lucy’s gay boyfriend. It also would’ve been great to see Lucas (Bobby’s son with Jenna, who Ray raised), Charlie (Jenna’s daughter), Margaret (Ray & Donna’s daughter), and JR’s son with his second wife Cally in the reboot.

Jesse Metcalfe was terribly miscast as Christopher, IMO.

Jon Ross was yummy.... and he's on our team....

It would’ve been interesting if they’d recast Pam for the reboot and written her as having been alive after all these years. I’m glad they finally put closure on her exit, one way or another. It was like they couldn’t decide whether to piss or get off the pot with her.

The character is or the actor r14? I haven't really seen the reboot but I am aware that the very sexy Jesse Metcalfe was in it.

Sasha Mitchell played JRs son James.....

I cannot remember what Donna Krebbs exit storyline was. What happened in her final scene?

Josh Henderson is not gay.

He is, however, a thief.

Dallas TNT DID try to get a Victoria Principal to return....But she turned them down...Plus the actress has has some "personal" issues.....

R19 Josh Henderson being "straight".....FYI he got his "start" from Marc Cherry on Desperate Housewives.....

There have been straight male actors who worked on DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES, R21.

Henderson is straight and has a child out of wedlock. He was wonderfully fey as John Ross at times, but he is nonetheless heterosexual.

Ouch....My heterosexuality is blinding.....And Fabulous...

R18 Donna just left Dallas for Washington. She had no exit storyline per se as Ray and her divorced. The show was really great and fun to watch until Principal left. It was incredibly undermined by writing the entire 1985-86 season as a dream. Principals acting improved over the course of nine years on the show, and she was an integral character. I always thought Jaclyn Smith would’ve been a great recast either in the latter years of Dallas or the reboot. Sue Ellen was hilarious and should be a patron saint of DL.

I got hooked on Dallas early in the series. Such fun and, in the beginning, unpredictable. Loved Pam as the heroine and Sue Ann as the struggling wife. It went downhill when Principal left. I didn't like that they killed Pam off in the reboot, and that they made Cliff a wannabe JR. The reboot was over the top, although the two young male leads were great to look at.

R24. I think Jaclyn Smith is the same “type” as VP ... I wouldnt have liked her as Pam, but def as a new character who wouldve filled that niche ...

In my opinion the show went south already when Bobby returned. Yes, the second half of the dream season had major problems. But when they brought Bobby back every female character was dumbed down which eventually made the show unwatchable. It became the J.R. and Bobby show with no one else having anything to do anymore. Pam, and more so Jenna turned into cry babies, literally. Miss Ellie had her last good scene in the dream season. Donna wasn't really written out. She had less and less to do and the next season nobody noticed her absence.

The 2012 show had other problems. In my personal opinion, the ailing Hagman was one problem. They wanted him to be in the show but not a central character. Same with Bobby and Sue Ellen. (Just like in the original show, she was initially not even a regular). The characters were in the show, but initially just thought as bystanders. And viewers didn't understand why they weren't utilized more. Only in the second season did they use these older characters properly. However, I actually thought that John Ross started to florish as a character after J.R. was out of the picture. Other problems: Some storylines didn't make sense. Sue Ellen running for governor; that kidnapping to Mexico, Miss Ellie's last will 15 years after her death - what were they thinking? Then they tried to retain character that clearly didn't fit in, like Elena Ramos or that Mexican drug dealer/mafiosi. Those were just not right for Dallas. Dallas should have been about the Ewings, the ranch and the company, not about the help from Mexico. And finally: I think a ten episode season is probably not a good fit for a soap. The reboot was fast paced which is fine, but stories were wrapped too fast and the seasons were rather incoherent.

R27 when Duffy came back so did misogynistic producer Leonard Katzman. He capitulated to Duffy and made it the JR and Bobby show. Principal just rode it out until she could get the hell out of there. Big mistake making the entire season a dream. Would’ve been more compelling to bring back Bobby without the dream.

The less said about the reboot the better. They got so many things wrong in the Dallas history I lost track. At least they gave JR and Pam a decent send off which is about all it accomplished.

I actually admire Principle for not coming back for the reboot. She was truly done with the show and didn't just go for the money.

She really messed up her face though. She'd had work done even before Dallas though.

Before Dallas, Duffy was in Man From Atlantis, and was quite hot.

Marc Cherry and Jon Ross....

Marc Cherry also "discovered" Christopher Ewing.....and DL Fave Shawn Pyfrom.....Such an eye for "talent"...

Remember when JR pushed Ginger from Gilligan's Island off the roof.

'I'd like to report a double murder"--------Sue Ellen shoots JR after Nicholas goes over the balcony.....

Josh and Jesse were hot af, especially in those gorgeous suits (and out of them). Throw in Juan Pablo Di Pace at the height of his beauty and it was breathtaking to see them, even with the sound off. The reboot was really good but it was obviously way too expensive for TNT to continue producing... the showrunner seems like a cunt, so that probably made their decision to axe it without even doing a wrap-up movie more understandable. But, damn, those boys were sure purty. Oh! And Judith Light was absolutely spectacular... such a deliciously evil and fun role; she was positively divine. A true tour de force.

Yeah, I don't know what's up with Cynthia Cidre. She seems to have a hard time keeping a job.

Audrey Landers deserved a supporting actress Emmy nom for the reboot.

I would have eaten that JR Ewing alive. He always wanted Falcon Crest but he never once dare set foot in the Tuscany Valley.

Larry Hagman had one of the greatest roles in TV history managing to make that character likable, funny, insane and despicable all at the same time. Hats off to a genius.

My only female crush EVER would have been Morgan Brittany. Lovely lady.

Cynthia Cidre blamed TNT for splitting up the Dallas TNT Third Season and airing the second half shows up against Fall Network Premieres---she said that's what killed the show....She was also instrumental in wrapping up the "What. Happened to Pam Ewing" storyline-----by the way----having JR search for Pam (a woman he despised)----it was JRs Masterpiece and. It was Genius....

Thanks for the details about Donna Krebbs r24

Bobby was so hot—handsome and hunky

Interring how no one had much of career after the original Dallas

Duffy had some success with Step by Step and Principal made a mint from her skin care line. In terms of cash she had the most success if you exclude Brad Pitt who did a few episodes lol.

Hagman played two very different characters. He was one of the best actors on TV. To go from Major Nelson to JR is such a stretch. He had nothing else to prove after Dallas.

[quote]Remember when JR pushed Ginger from Gilligan's Island off the roof.

He didn't. He sent a couple of goons to her apartment to try to make her leave town, and one thing led to another.

So now the Redundant Thread Thief and Moldy Pop Name-Dropper is grasping at trashy soaps?

GODAMMIT you're garbage. No taste and no shame.

Here's the original thread from which the autistic, parasite OP stole his thread idea:

Please Flame & Freak the OP, who feels the need to start a new thread for every noun mentioned in a prior thread!

Oh the hours I spent dreaming about plunging my tongue into Patrick Duffy's hole.

The show was unintentionally funny---such over the top seriousness about turesome rich people.

Cidre had done a failed drama about a Latino family business called CANE and apparently wanted to do those storylines on the rebooted DALLAS - where they were wildly out of place. By the third season, the show felt like a drama about the Mexican drug cartel, not the Ewings of Dallas. Cidre really wanted a Latino imprimatur on the rebooted DALLAS, because every other character HAD to be Hispanic, whether it was realistic or not.

She also shot herself in the foot by having the show spend so much time on the mystery of Pam's fate, only to find out she'd been dead for 30 years. That's not where soap mysteries are supposed to go, and she would have had so much more storyline potential by having a (recast) Pamela back in Dallas, fighting for Bobby's affections and battling with John Ross, whom she once had loved as a son.

Cidre did get some things, right, though: JR's funeral was moving and effective. The eventual emphasis on Sue Ellen was smart and satisfying, and Josh Henderson was PERFECT casting as John Ross.

Dallas was that rare prime time soap that appealed more to straight men than the normal core of gay men and straight women. It was such a butch show. No real strong female leads, though Linda Gray’s Sue Ellen got stronger as the series aged. It was all about the bros on his show. To whit- my Dad, a super emotionally closed off sports freak, LOVED Dallas. Primarily because of JR. He was a straight white man’s hero. Almost a harbinger of DJT now that I think about it...

R54 - that is a great point. My dad, grandfather, every friend's father........literally EVERY adult male seemed to watch this show back in the day; men easily loved it as much as women. I was too little to like the show at all, but old enough to know that everyone watched it - at least until the dream season anyway.

David Paulsen who had been a producer on Dallas was brought over to Knots, a show with traditionally strong female characters and a very loyal female audience, around season 6 or 7 precisely to make the male characters less wimpy and passive. He introduced Paul Galveston and the whole Empire Valley thing. It didn't really work.

This is off topic: David Paulsen did great things with Dynasty's last season.

Maybe r57 but not enough to stop it being axed.

I remember some of the actors were furious over the dream season, because it negated their work and the progress their characters made during that season. Linda Gray and Susan Howard were the most vocal. Sue Ellen sobered up and became more independent during the dream season, but she was back to being a lush after that. Howard was the most resentful, because it totally axed the story of Donna/Ray raising that deaf kid, which she loved doing.

R59

According to Wikipedia Susan Howard refused to renew her contract because her pro life views were at odds with the pro abortion direction the show took with her character.

I don't think that's why she was let go. They ran out of story for her. She also complained when she got wind that they were going to make Marete von Kemp's character Grace lesbian or bi. She went running to the produers and threatened to quite. I think that was the dream season. Producers caved, and they nixed the lesbian angle.

Any dish on the background story to Barbara Bel Geddes sudden departure after the penultimate season?

She had some health issues and didn't want to continue with the weekly grind. They kept Howard Keel in the credits, but I don't think he appeared in more than two or three episodes that last season.

Did they slash Dallas' budget like they did with Knots Landing? The ratings really plunged for Dallas for the last seasons. The last one finished in 61st place. A big drop for a very successful show.

Yes, the budget was slashed by Lorimar, R64, because prime time soaps did not do well in syndication, which is how the studio had planned to recoup its production expenses.

On DALLAS, it really showed. Flat lighting in every scene, bottom-dollar cinematography and no more Texas location shooting, which completely removed whatever hint of authenticity it had.

Patrick Duffy suffers from the Irish curse. Ted Shackerlford had a third leg. Ken Kercheval had micro-peen. Sasha Mitchell was long and thick.

Susan Howard used to sub for Pat Robertson on the 700 Club.

Did Miss Howard vote for Trump?

Oh r63 I thought it was a pay dispute at the heart of it?

They had to cut actors after the dream seasons. I call b/s on statements like "the character ran its course", or "we wrote ourselves into a corner". Likewise: "I leave to pursue other opportunities. " That might be true in 10% of all cases. Other than that it's budget disputes. And Dallas slashed seasoned actors pretty much the same time Knots Landing let go McCashin and Harris. Seasoned actors just become very expensive after their initial 5 year run. And Patrick Duffy got a nice sign on bonus on top of everything.

But surely r70 as the shows matriarch Miss Ellie should have been an untouchable sacred cow? It seemed odd her being absent from the shows final season.

The show was a mess the last few years. They brought back Charlene Tilton and didn't know what to do with her. They tried pairing her with Andrew Stevens' Casey Denault, but that went nowhere. She eventually just became a sounding boring for Callie, and then pretty much disappeared without fanfare.

Dallas was so huge here in Italy that basically launched Berlusconi's tv empire. And the rest, as they say, is history.

Susan Howard supports the NRA.

C

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74 replies and no mention of a certain beloved future daytime Emmy winner who brought glamor, excitement, and viewers to Dallas?

It's obvious they were casting for looks only for some of the actors during the last few seasons. Sasha Mitchell, Cathy Podewell and Kimberly Foster were very lackluster actors, to put it nicely.

^Who cares? Sasha Mitchell was a thing of beauty and gave this gayling endless JO fodder.

After the departures of Principal, Howard, Kanaly, Presley and Gray they hired a ton of young actors on the cheap which kept driving the show into the ground. Callie Wtf was that about? Hangman and Duffy kept getting more money but the quality really deteriorated. People just tuned out after the dream season. It was a big fuck you to viewers who cried tears over Bobby’s death and invested hours in the dream season. Lesson-don’t screw with fans.

Keel was happy with whatever scripts he was given just to work. But Bel Geddes left and retired before the last season. Made no sense as Miss Ellie would never leave Southfork. I did like Barbara Eden in the last season. She was the only bright spot.

I was one of the few who like the "Dream Season" (although I first watched Dallas in syndication years after, so I was not influenced by public opinion). Dack Rambo never looked better and prancing his huge bubble around in painted-on jeans was an obvious perk for me. I really enjoyed John Beck's pairing with Pam and Barbara Carrera's funky role as Angelica Nero (although that plot was pretty obvious).

Dack Rambo had an astonishing physique. Guys in jeans usually have a great ass or a great bulge. He had both in abundance.

R75 I was on Dallas long before you...

... and that was a totally pointless story line. She just fizzled out and disappeared.

Because Sue F likes the lady ham.

Once they started bringing on all those pointless characters (Callie, James Beaumont, Stevens sisters...), the show really went downhill.

That said, there were some hilarious characters before that point. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Barbara Carrera as Angelica Nero:

Patrick in the early 80s was so hot, especially in his speedo.

I loved the dream season! It was all downhill after Patrick came back.

I was a fan of the reboot, too. It could have gone on without Hagman. Judith Light was incredible.

There are quite a few fans of the dream season. This would’ve been a perfect season to end Dallas. The ultimate showdown between JR and Pam had been building for years, and Bobby’s death led to it. They had such ripe material without Angelica Nero and the diamond mines. They wanted to copy Alexis of Dynasty by bringing in Barbara Carrera. Dallas was never taken seriously again after this season.

R86 I loved her! That cliffhanger with Jaime blowing up in the car and Sue Ellen walking into JR’s office as it blows up... loved it. I was in 4th grade, but I loved it.

We all know his ultimate fate, but looking like he did - can you even imagine the crazy sex that Dack Rambo had during those Dallas years?

The first half of the dream season was fantastic. Pam, Sue Ellen , Donna and Miss Ellie all in agony and it was glorious.

The second half was execrable. One of the worst mistakes the writers ever made was making Pam JR’s partner in Ewing Oil - a storyline bursting with potential - and then abandoning it before it went anywhere for the asinine diamond mines story.

DALLAS had gold with its leading ladies. That all 4 were gone within a few years is a misogynistic tragedy.

Hagman got rid of Phil Capice, the executive producer who championed a lot of the women on the show, especially Victoria. Leonard Katzman came back when Duffy did and received full autonomy and in the process ran the show into the ground. Katzman thought the show was really about JR and Bobby and the women were inconsequential.

Katzman was right. The show was ultimately about JR and Bobby. Unlike Knots, the women weren't really very important or respected by the writers, and were pretty expendable.

The sequel would have been a lot more interesting if it had been Christopher, thinking his father Bobby was an old uptight fuddy duddy, who was the scheming one, and John Ross, mortified by his father's shenanigans, who was the morally upright character.

Karzman wasn’t right, R91. DALLAS sidelining and losing its original female characters helped kill it.

Totally disagree with r91. Sue Ellen and Pam were great characters, and their best season was the dream season.

I find the dream season one of the most fascinating seasons on television. The JR/Pam Ewing Oil partnership started off great but like r89 said they abandoned it. The JR/Pam feud came full circle. I loved Pam this season. She picked herself up from the grief of Bobby's death, became a powerful business woman and went toe to toe with JR. Who can forget the scene when after Mark Grayson came back into her life Pam wanted to sleep with him and she stripped for him. Sue Ellen became stronger. Linda Gray and Victoria Principal did some of their best work. The fact that it was Pam's "dream" only further gave the season an almost feminist spin. The season finale was great with multiple shockers - Jamie and Sue Ellen in explosions, Pam finding Bobby, etc.

The dream season did charter into Dynasty territory but Dallas was a better show and the dream season had enough elements of soap, drama and camp.

Katzman and Hagman resented that the women took center stage and the old boys club was put back in place.

Who can forget the gorgeous Deborah Shelton (of "Body Double" fame) - Mandy Winger on Dallas for years? She was jaw-dropping then and quite possible had the most beautiful head of hair ever seen on TV.

It’s weird to think Dallas and Twin Peaks were on the air at the same time.

Josh Henderson and Jesse Metcalfe were almost TOO hot — not that I didn’t like looking at them but it was kind of distracting. It was hard to see them as mature adults, the way you saw J.R. and Bobby on the original show, when they looked like they should be doing Sean Cody videos.

Bobby Ewing must be the dullest character ever to have 16 seasons of television written about him.

How is Linda Gray looking these days? I couldn’t believe how fabulous she looked at 72.

Surely r78 it wouldn't have been just Larry Hagman and Patrick Duffy who kept getting most of the money / cast salary expenditure by the shows makers but also Ken Kercheval aka Cliff Barnes long time enemy and rival of JR?

Patrick Duffy in his speedo was anything but boring.

I think Jack Scalia as Nicholas Pearce Sue Ellens lover was one of the shows sexiest characters.

r98 Kercheval made peanuts comapared to Hagman and Duffy.

R101 - that is probably true for most of the Dallas cast. Hagman was already a basically tenured TV star by then and Duffy became the overnight sex symbol sensation when the show took off. They had an odd bromance of sorts and Hagman felt that he needed Duffy in order for the show to survive. He was partially correct although the show went downhill for good after the Dream Season and never recovered - Duffy or no Duffy.

I wonder if Larry and Patrick ever played Truth or Dare.

For what it's worth, the open countryside that once surrounded Southfork hasn't existed since at least the late 90s. It's all strip malls, office parks, and tacky McMansions now... the kind that are cut & pasted by developers with no direct involvement by an actual architect.

Dallas in general, and Plano in particular, is RIFE with architecturally-illiterate McMansions whose only virtue is having 6 bedrooms, 6+2x1/2 bath, and a 4-car garage... with at least 3 towering 2-story windows adorned with accordion-folded paper window blinds (because the owner can't afford proper window treatments for windows that huge), a grand staircase whose only justification is the future prom night of the owner's daughter, and a bathtub on a marble pedestal that looks like it belongs in a Greek temple... and will be used 3 times in 40 years for an actual bath (at most one of which will involve rose petals) because it's so impractical... and because the water tank isn't big enough to fill it with anything hotter than 'tepid' water, and the "builder's special" spa tub lacks a heater.

Interesting article about the return of Bobby after the dream season. There were other scripts that suggested other scenarios.

The actual wealthy elite of Dallas would have lived on a very large lot in the old Preston Hollow estate vicinity (Highland Park or University Park are equally expensive but don't have the acreage to pull off the "feel"). Some of the estates off of Strait Lane would qualify. Of course, you couldn't have your stockyards on your property per se, but you get the point. The show was campy and fun but not really realistic.

R102 Linda was let go i believe due to her large salary and the seasonal raises. Victoria always maintains they offered her more money for stay to make her the highest paid actress on tv. I think they offered her a little more to stay, but they were starting to tighten the budget due to falling ratings. Victoria was ready to leave anyway. Victoria deserved as much as Patrick imo. They ended up offering Duffy more to get him back.

if you really look at that shot of Southfork in the opening and closing credits, it's not a very big house/ranch.

one of the wings is a garage; one's the living/drawing room, one the foyer and the other the dining room. It was always presented as something bigger than it was for all those couples to live there. No wonder Lucy and Ray had to sneak around in the hayloft.

I loved this show. I'd watch it every Friday night with my family.

One time, when JR and Bobby were in the big main battle for Ewing oil (I think) and JR is taking as much oil out of the ground as possible to get short term profits, he walks out to breakfast and Miss Ellie, the only other one there, says in that stern voice, "JR, I hear your pumping at full capacity."

I let out a chuckle; this flew over my brothers' heads but I looked over at my mom and she was stifling a big laugh.

I think the revival really blew it; they could have promised Victoria Principal all the gauze filled jelly lens in the world to get her to come back and give her and Bobby that happy ending viewers were denied when they blew Pam up in a car at the end of 87.

It'd have been nice if somehow CBS had worked out a crossover where JR and Angela Channing from Falcon Crest teamed up; maybe JR found oil on Falcon Crest land or Falcon Crest finances some scheme of JR's.

I'm genuinely surprised to hear that r101. Cliff Barnes was integral to the premise of Dallas and the rivalry between the two wealthy oil baron families.

Kercheval wasn't even in the opening credits the first few seasons and was best known as a NY soap and theater actor before he got Dallas, so I imagine his salary was low those first few years before he probably renegotiated when it became a monster success.

[quote]Sue Ellen sobered up and became more independent during the dream season, but she was back to being a lush after that.

I was NOT a lush.

I wonder how Miss Principal felt about being eclipsed by glorified extra Linda Gray at the female lead.

[quote]Kercheval wasn't even in the opening credits the first few seasons

He was added Season 3, assuming the You Tube opening credits are correct. The Dallas credits were prettyconsistent for the most part in the early years.

Season 1 and 2: Bel Geddes, Davis, Duffy, Grey, Hagman, Kanaly, Principal, Tilton

Seasons 3 and 4: same with Kercheval added.

Seasons 5 and 6: same but with Davis gone after his death, and Howard added.

Linda Gray and Steve Kanaly didn't appear in the first season credits. It was Bel Geddes, Davis, Duffy, Hagman, Principal and Tilton. They were added in season 2.

If that's the case, whoever uploaded these to YouTube labeled them wrong.

r115, Randolph Powell was how I knew that I was gay. I have loved ultra hairy chests ever since.

I specifically remember that Linda Gray was not credited in the first season (at least not in the opening credits). She would later become one of the most popular cast members, but she didn't start out that way. Season 1 was all about Bobby and Pam - "Romeo and Juliet" meets "Return of the Prodigal Son". Poor JR - his character received a lot empathy from viewers because neither of his parents choose him as Their favorite, so even when he did nasty things you still felt bad that he was always trying to prove himself and earn their love. He and Abby Ewing over at Knots Landing were the characters that you loved to hate - but loved more than the ones that you were intended to champion.

Be aware that they called the initial six episodes a mini-series. That's not the first season. The first season per the studio's count started in 1979, not 1978. Grey was not in the credits of the mini-series.

Credits sans Grey and Kanaly

The miniseries mainly was about the star crossed lovers Bobby and Pam marrying & the aftermath.

Yeah, it seems that the show was really focused on Bobby and Pam, but then JR and Sue Ellen turned out to be more interesting.

I thought Pam was the most interesting in the mini-series and then the dream season. She was more assertive in these seasons. Soon she would become a basket case, wanting a baby, becoming a doormat for both Bobby and her brother. Dream Season Pam was more like mini-series Pam.

I think this scene made Suellen. Before this Suellen was in the background but after she was in the forefront of the show.

R127. Agreed. Mini-series Pam had some grit. "Pam goes mental because she wants a baayyybeeee" was the WORST storyline!

Question for regular viewers of Dallas: was the show good at developing multi-dimensional characters, or were they more one-note caricatures? How often did they show JR having empathy for someone, or Bobby being a selfish ass?

One of the things I liked about Knots Landing was their willingness and ability to do this. Abby was the lead villain, but she loved her kids and would do anything to protect them (Olivia's drug story), and even showed occasional compassion for people she didn't like (coming clean about Val's babies to help reunite them). And Karen was supposed to be the white night, but had moments of bitchiness with Sid and Mack, or even her friends like Laura. She wasn't always the best mother. And I know there was also at least one episode where she contemplated having an affair.

Did Dallas show that complexity with its characters?

I personally thought that Bobby was a selfish ass all the time. In many ways, he treated Pam like shit -- usually over some macho husband/wife dynamic, but also in business. A frequent point of conflict on the show was Pam fretting that Bobby was really just as ruthless as Jock and JR.

JR was shown to have genuine feelings for his child. I can't find a video, but I remember an episode after John Ross was proven to be JR's that ended with JR picking the baby up and quietly crying.

Generally, I'd say the characters stayed one-dimensional to a certain level. They always stayed archetypes. Bobby was always, ALWAYS, the white knight. J.R. obviously the villain. Miss Ellie was for comfort, Jock was the old crusty one without any empathy. Sue Ellen was conceptually the eternal victim, just like Val. They made her stronger at some point because there is only so much to do for a victim. Pam, I'd say, was the character they changed the most. She started as a fighter, did a 360 when psychotherapy became the hot topic, and then returned her to strong willed (and mostly nagging) character. In her last season, after Bobby had returned, she just ended up being whiny, agonizing about everything, like not having her own kids, Jenna being the other woman etc.

I would agree, R132. But even though JR was the villain like 99% of the time, Hagman infused that character with so much personal emotion and love for family and legacy that you somehow sympathized with him - especially when he was screwing over another villain.

Exactly r133. Hagman was able to make JR almost likable with his little one-liners but never making JR maudlin or too soft.

I thought the scene where Bobby comforts Lucy when she finds out her crush is gay was when we saw sympathetic and compassionate Bobby. It's a really touching scene (and rather progressive). He didn't criticize the guy but tried to make Lucy understand how difficult it might be for him.

Bobby gets a lot of love for being the good guy, but he really was extremely self-centered, and terrible at business deals. He was just good looking, and felt stymied by JR and Pam all the time. He was pretty 2 dimensional the whole time he was seeming like a sympathetic nice handsome character on horseback. In reality he did very little that was genuinely good. He was toothless in every way.

r135 I always remember a scene in the southfork family" living room" when the whole Ewing family were having a big row over a massive scandal Ewing oil had been caught up in. Pam drippily and sweetly said "Bobby didn't start this" and Sue Ellen frustrated at Pams self righteousness and naivety snapped back at her " He didn't stop it either" and indeed Sue Ellen had a point .Bobby was not so saintly even though he was not as bad as JR he was no innocent.

... and let's not forget that Dallas started with Bobby coming home to the main office after Jock and J.R. had sent him out to politicians to hand out briefcases with cash. That back story was never reconciled with the white knight Pam thought she had married. Cliff Barnes - at that point - was actually a character with much stronger moral compass.

Good point r137 I am hazy on the details of the first season but that fact of bribery alone puts things in a different light.

Cliff started out as decent and honorable & became a monster while fighting J.R.

Agreed R135. Bobby didn't have the cojones to commit to being either fully good or fully ruthless.

R136 poor example. That was the post dream season. JR had gotten Ewing Oil and the family mixed up with mercenaries overseas. JR ended up costing the family Ewing Oil. By the time Bobby found out, it was too late to do anything whatsoever. Stupid line from Sue Ellen. JR set the wheels in motion and went behind Bobby’s back.

Hagman and Mary Crosby had amazing chemistry. I would hardly label her a master thespian, but they were quite good together.

[quote]Hagman was able to make JR almost likable with his little one-liners

I think my favorite was when he told someone he was blackmailing "Once you give up integrity, the rest is a piece of cake".

Mary Crosby was very good in the role.

Vote for the most mishandled character: Jenna Wade. Whatever Bobby's story line needed - Jenna Wade was remodeled accordingly. Presley's Jenna started as this self-sufficient, very reasonable all-together character. And from there it was a roller coaster. Naldo came to Dallas and she was never the same. She became the victim du jour from that point on and couldn't do anything on her own anymore. Then Bobby died. She was the only one keeping it together for half a season. Then, after everybody got it together and moved on, that's when she started to fall apart - into downright crazy territory. Once Bobby came back, she was whiny and resentful. Understandable, but still uncomfortable to watch. And what does she do? Hooks up with the next available man she has never looked at before because she had no chemistry with him anyway. And she lost her last trait that made me like her: She always had good relations with her daughter. They had a special relationship, a 'we're in in together' relationship. When that ended and the relationship with Ray started, I just wanted her to go away.

When I rewatched Dallas in the 2000s I noticed that Jock wore the most flamboyant suits I've ever seen up to that point. Bobby was always (very) conservatively stylish, and J. R always wore bland. But Jock always had a fancy suit, not just a suit. Maybe it was a Texas thing back in the 70s. Or maybe it was a status symbol for old farts who made it big in oil or cattle. But if I had ever worn those suits my parents would have sent me and that suit right to gay therapy.

The Jenna/Naldo story was beyond boring. Presley was a terrible actress so she couldn't carry it but who cares who killed Naldo?

I thought it would have been interesting if Charlie ended up being JR’s daughter.

Jenna’s departure from Dallas before the series started happened around the time her fathers business collapsed.

It would have been interesting if JR had offered her the money to keep him from bankruptcy in exchange for sleeping with him. Then, when he backed out of giving the money to him, she left Dallas and Bobby, ashamed.

It would have twisted the story of Charlie’s paternity up and caused conflict for all involved. I would have introduced it as a plot line in the 87-88 season.

Also, I would have brought Mandy Winger back for Sue Ellen’s final season, and because Sue Ellen hated Mandy so much she decided to give Cally lessons on being a proper Ewing wife. It would have been a better ending storyline than the movie.

R147 I think it was an effort to give Presley something to do on the show. Plus it played into the Bobby and Pam are they aren’t they getting back together. If Jenna went to jail, would they reunite eventually? I didn’t mind the storyline, but after Pam and Bobby got back together in the post dream season, they should’ve let Presley go. Jenna and Ray had no chemistry.

r148 I loved the season cliffhanger episode in 1987 were Mandy Winger and Sue Ellen clashed in the office of Valentine Lingerie. "Don't bank on it Sue Ellen you will be hearing from me again"! I wonder if they planned to bring her back or they were just keeping their options open and Deborah Shelton declined a return?

They should’ve brought Mandy back to marry JR, Cally was the worst. At this point Dallas was a joke anyway.

[quote]Jenna and Ray had no chemistry.

The depressing aspect is that the actors and probably even the characters they were playing had to know that they were just paired up because they were the leftovers that had nothing left to do on the show.

If I recall correctly, Presley was the third actress to play Jenna Wade, one of the earlier ones being Morgan Fairchild.

Presley was an awful actress, but there was tremendous interest in her in 1983, when she joined the show. She was Elvis' ex-wife and most people remembered her as the teenager with the long, lacquered bouffant. Now, she was a gorgeous woman. It was a good casting choice.

And Jenna was written as likable and fiercely independent at first. She was a cocktail waitress at a western saloon and refused any help from Bobby. She was a formidable adversary for Pam, because audience members might root for her to win Bobby'/s heart.

The next season, Presley cut her hair, and Jenna was immediately wholly dependent on Bobby to save her. It didn't bring out the best in Presly and there wasn't much for her to do after Bobby' supposed death. She should have been written off far earlier than she was. By the time she was paired with Kanaly, another wooden actor, she was already dead weight.

Good points, r154. I remember when she came on, there was a lot of hoopla, and you're right, she was stunning. I didn't like it when she cut her hair though.

I should correct myself. Presley can act - at least she is great in the Naked Gun movies. Not everybody can do that type of humour and she and Leslie Nielsen were brilliant together.

But her last season was unwatchable. She and Ray were like watching paint dry. And adding obnoxious, bratty Charlie made them insufferable.

It would have been interesting to bring back Mandy. Why did Shelton leave? She was so beautiful. That would have been a great way to end Sue Ellen's run, I agree. Mandy really annoyed Sue Ellen because she was a genuine threat to her.

Hey [49] and [50], who are you Cliff Barnes? Have a bourbon and branch and calm the fuck down. That thread was focused on one actor and character, this thread is about the show in general and all the great characters. Sorry, I've been out drilling for oil or I would have responded earlier.

Met Linda Gray twice...absolitely adorable...and Larry once(he was fun and really played on the jr character..not sure whete jr ended and larry began. But they were so charming and just wonderful. Ot was about 2012.

^Hopefully Larry and Linda weren't put off by your inability to spell, as I am.

I loved it when Sue Ellen said "I am going to drink myself into OB-LIV-I-ON."

To R130 ... as a kid watch8ng with my family it all felt So real. U believed in the Ewings. Dynasty felt glam..was fun too...but Dalls felt real. U always remember us as a family letting out screams at the cliff-hanger endings each week...if it was netflix u wud definitely have had to binge watch. And Everyone watched it. As a teen, all my school peers watched it too. Meeting linda Gray and larry H was just so amazing. And they were a joy. I spent hours in their company.

R155 I think when Jr and Sue Ellen reunited for the millionth time, they just Shelton go. I don’t know wtf producers were thinking when the chick that played Cally. All the younger dumb characters they cast in the latter years just sucked the show dry.

Am I the only one who thinks that if Dallas was made today sensitive black sheep brother Gary, would be gay? It would make so much sense that it would be why he and Alpha male Jock couldn't get along, also Lucy's birth could be explained as him trying to prove he was straight and getting a young naive girl pregnant.

I guess it was cheaper to pay the actress who played Cally. But that story made no sense.

I'm pretty sure all new actors joining a show, any show, are cheap. Even the good ones. Mary Crosby, Audrey Landers Kimberly Foster and Cathy Podewell probably all cost the same when they started Dallas. Unless you have a big name, you are probably very affordable. Once your first contract is up and the show wants to retain you, that's when you start making a good living. So, money probably wasn't the issue with these young new actors. The problem was lazy casting and a stupid story line to begin with. Sending J.R and Bobby to that small town to have him coerced into this marriage by Cally's brother was simply not credible. It was out of character for J.R. The guy who threw over governments and plotted countless attacks on adversaries was driven into a literal shot gun wedding? That's a groaner. Same with J.R. being institutionalized by his son. It was just not credible. They had a lame story line and didn't have the writing or acting to save it.

I accept your re-write, R162. In fact, I love it! And don't forget, Gary was his mama's favorite.

I like the rewrite by r162 as well. It probably would have worked in the original series if they were so bold.

Then Abby would have been PLENTY disappointed after she stole him from Valene.

Just got to Timothy Patrick Murphy's first appearance as Mickey Trotter, damn he was cute.

R168 - yes, he was adorable. Such a hot guy in his prime - ultimately with a sad demise not long after.

I was disappointed they killed off Mickey so quickly. And i hated how they glossed over Sue Ellen's drunk driving and pinned it on someone else who was trying to kill JR.

I adored Sue Ellens lover Nicholas Pearce. Jack Scalia was hot and I missed him when he was killed off! 🔥💋

When Ray took Mickey to Southfork and told him he was going to be in Bunkhouse #3, I could just imagine him having nasty fun with the other cowboys!

I wonder if Mickey was checking out Bobby in his Speedo.

I'm probably the only poster to say this but I loved the Cally character. I thought she was interesting and sweet and funny to watch. I liked April with Bobby, too. I agree the creation of the character was ridiculous (Cally) but once she settled in it was kind of entertaining... she didn't take all JR's shit.

I also far preferred the original Southfork to the McMansion .

I'll never forget a quote (well, a paraphrased quote) from Elaine Stritch about Vicky Principal. They had done a TV movie together, and some reporter asked Stritch what she thought of Principal. She replied the Principal "is really dumb, but very smart, if you get my drift." I think she meant that Principal is basically a stupid woman who used her looks to get ahead but was very savvy when it came to the business.

Principal proved to be a very shrewd business woman and did very well for herself post-Dallas. She was really great as Pam although I ended up liking Linda Gray's role more than Pam as the series progressed (yes, I watched it in syndication, so a show a day helped put things into perspective). The "original" Southfork was far more grand than the second one R174 - I agree with you. That home actually seemed scaled to have multiple couples living there with some element of privacy.

I lost all patience with Pam one episode because she and Bobby were headed off to bed in a very romantic mood and she suddenly shut him down because she was ambivalent about having a child. Dumbest move ever. First, turning down hot as hell Bobby and then not being aware of birth control.

Sue Ellen was the original hot mess

ITA, R177 and I know for a FACT that Principal was not happy about that scene and told the writers, 'Oh come on, why doesn't Pam just do anal if she's so concerned about it...'

I just watched for the first time an episode of the first full season. Kate Mulgrew playing a country singer dating Ray but then hooking up with J.R. to get a record deal. The character is surprisingly three dimensional and modern even by today's standard. And Mulgrew plays it well. Glad she ended up having a successful career. She deserves it.

Timothy Patrick Murphy pissed off Dallas producers by wanting to leave after his 1st season to do a movie Where is Parsifal? with Larry Oliver. Producers said NO and punished him by putting him in that medical condition....knowing they could have just killed him off so he could do the movie but instead lingering his death to punish him.

Alexis Smith as Lady Jessica is delightfully campy.

Has there ever been a worse replacement of a long term actor on a show, as Donna Reed taking over Miss Ellie? TPTB should have really found themselves a more down to earth actress, for the role. Donna Reed looked more like she was trying to play Angela Channing's sister, than Miss Ellie.

All My Children's Mary Fickett, while six years younger than BBG, would have been a good replacement, in that they had similar styles and looks. Who else could have taken the role?

Mary Fickett, though a fine actress, did not look old enough to be Larry Hagman's mother. Come to think of it, I think they played contemporaries on Edge of Night in the 1960s.

R186 I was mainly going by her persona. Can you think of anyone else who would have been more down to earth and wouldn't have been as shockingly different?

Also, BBG was only nine years older than LH, DR ten years older, and MF was three years older. I was a baby when these episodes aired, but I remember MF on AMC in the late 80's early 90's and she always appeared older than she was, so I imagined she would have in 1984 as well.

The re-hire of BBG is a bit of a mystery to me. I really would like to know what she did to get the job back. One story says that Hagman and the producers independently approached BBG to come back because Reed just didn't work in that role. And another story says that she was actually the one approaching the producers because 'she couldn't stand someone else playing her part." Either way it looked to me like 'mama' kicked another actress out of a job, which is so un-Ellie.

R188 I'm not sure how it happened, but I am glad that it did. There is probably some truth to both stories. Hagman was known to really like BBG so I could see him playing a role, and it would have to be hard for BBG to watch another person playing a role that was "hers." Also, once the producers knew that Duffy was going to leave they knew that they needed all of their stars for the next season.

Donna Reed was horrible as Miss Ellie, but the show treated her like shit. I hate watching that season because you can see how uncomfortable she is in every scene, and how much the other actors resent her.

I don't think any of the actors resented her, except maybe Hagman, because he wanted his mother Mary Martin to take on the role.

Barbara Bel Geddes was having heart problems as far back as 1983. She left the show after the 83-84 season to have triple bypass surgery. She had intended to retire from acting, or at least the weekly grind of a series, due to her heart problems. After the surgery, BBG spent over a year recovering at her farm in upstate New York. Donna Reed just simply didn't work as Ellie. She played Ellie more like an Eastern matriarch. BBG made you believe she grew up on a ranch. Not Donna Reed. Hagman didn't want Donna Reed to replace BBG, and there are stories that he lobbied for his mother Mary Martin to play the role.

Viewers didn't really respond to Reed's portrayal either. I remember I didn't like the way she played the role, nor did anyone I know who watched the show. It just didn't work. Hagman and others knew it. He and Linda Gray called BBG and started opening the dialogue about returning. BBG was feeling much better and had recovered much more than she anticipated. She realized she missed acting and was open to coming back on the show. Still, producers had to work with her on a different schedule since she left for health reasons. She really couldn't do a full weekly series grind anymore. That was all worked out, and no doubt more money was offered as well.

BBG never had anything negative to say about Donna Reed. In fact, about the only thing BBG said was how awful it was the way producers had handled telling Donna Reed that BBG was coming back.

I believe I read that Reed was hired due to her good chemistry with Howard Keel (which she did have). But she just wasn’t Miss Ellie. The whole thing was a train wreck.

Reed both acted and looked terrified in every scene during her short stint as Miss Ellie. She was too pretty for the role and far too boring an actress. It all looked like some sort of bad joke.

I agree that Reed looked like a deer in the headlights. They basically hired her for publicity, without a thought for whether or not she could play the role. Plus that was the Travilla season, wasn't it, when all the ladies discovered couture for a year? Ellie was always a wasted character to me. She had some spark in the first season and miniseries, but she was watered down to most frequently expressing disappoint with a line that started with oh, Bobby or oh, JR. Oh was a good drinking game because it was most of what she said but she was only on so much so you weren't that drunk at the end of an episode.

[quote]She really couldn't do a full weekly series grind anymore. That may be true in her case, having heart issues. But there is probably no cushier job than being a regular on a weekly soap. You're one of nine cast members (on average) and probably just have five minutes of air time to film per week. Even when you're the lead you only have to film one of three storylines, so make that fifteen minutes max. Compare that to a weekly cop show, like poor Mariska who is in 75% of all scenes.

BBG had her heart surgery in early 1983. She missed a few episodes of the 1983-1984 season. The real reason she left was she wanted more money and less of a work load. Her manager tried to negotiate with the producers but lost. Hagman has verified this. He said she should’ve gotten him involved because she would’ve gotten what she wanted. Dallas was still a big hit in the Donna Reed season. It ended up at number 2 that season. It was stunt casting at its best due to Donna having her own show as a mother.

I think Donna it was smart not to copy BBG. But BBG saw the show through its glory years. A far worst example is Emma Samms as Fallon on Dynasty and the Colby’s. At least Donna was close to the character. Not in physical appearance but personality. But BBG needed to return no doubt.

Donna thought she had a better handle on the role of Ellie due to living in Tulsa with her third husband. She went in there with arrogance that she would do a much better job than Barbara did. She was wrong, it just didn't work and she did look uncomfortable in most every scene. In the biography of Donna Reed she believed Hagman sabotaged her at every turn. She said the cinematographer lit her badly on purpose. Her widow said she would come home in tears everyday. And on her death bed she wondered to her best friend will I only be remembered for being fired from Dallas?

It was believable that Howard Keel would be interested in Donna Reed, not so much frumpy BBG. But I agree that Reed didn't seem comfortable in the role, for whatever reason. It would have been best not to recast and have just killed Miss Ellie off the first time and then let the power struggle between Bobby and JR kick up a notch without the steadying influence of their mother.

I think one of the stupidest things the show ever did was to not acknowledge immediately that Jock was dead after the actor playing him died and then drag it out with the stupid impostor storyline

It would have been a TERRIBLE idea to kill off Miss Ellie, R199. The fans loved the character and Barbara Bel Geddes was a great renowned actress. No doubt the producers wagered they'd eventually get her back and they did. DALLAS was about family relationships, and to lose both parents within a few years of each other would have destroyed generational conflicts.

By the way, did you actually watch DALLAS? Jock Ewing died off-camera the year after Jim Davis died. The "stupid imposter storyline" was 5 years later.

The fans loved BBG? Hmmm, exaggerate much?

R199 the show needed a strong parent to rein JR in. His daddy and mama are the only ones JR listened to and they came down on his ass, so you couldn’t kill off Miss Eliie too. And the battle for Ewing Oil between JR and Bobby and all the collateral damage it entailed, in the wake of Jocks death, was the best storyline Dallas had ever had.

The imposter storyline was immediately after the dream season. I’m ambivalent about it. The writers were running out of fresh ideas at this point. The show was in decline. But it’s the one thing the entire cast was dealing with, even Cliff. The idea that Jock could be alive. So to that end it was good.

They hired Steve Forrest during the dream season and then brought him back on in next season as a totally different character. I wonder if they had planned on hinting at him being an imposter during the dream season as well. Steve Forrest was hot (for a man of his age), but he was terribly miscast and looked a whole generation younger than BBG.

Poor Dack Rambo - talk about having nothing to do after the Dream Season! He was so damn hot too. Steve Forrest was also a great addition I thought. He was really sexy in Mommie Dearest and it was fun to see him show up on Dallas (many of us saw the show long after the initial airing, myself included). I agree that he seemed too young for Ellie, but that was part of the fun of it.

I think it would have been interesting if the producers had gotten Dorothy Malone, who they approached and who turned them down. She could have starred in two of the most iconic primetime soaps of all time.

Although I missed Jock, you can't deny the season where JR and Bobby fight for control for Ewing Oil was amazing. Holly Harwood (what a name), Timothy Patrick Murphy, Sue Ellen foolishly thinking that JR could change, BBG giving an outstanding performance as Miss Ellie dealing with grief and so many great scenes. The best of soap storytelling.

The reading of Jock's will is one of my all-time favourite scenes. Jock mocking Gary from the grave, and Miss Ellie knowing exactly what Jock has planned with Ewing Oil - her reaction is perfect.

I agree with the above posters who wrote that killing off Miss Ellie would have been a bad idea because JR needed a strong parent to rein him in. Only Jock and Ellie seemed to be able to put a stop to JR's shenanigans. They were the only two people he ever deferred to. I remember when JR and Sue Ellen got divorced, Miss Ellie refused to allow JR to humiliate Sue Ellen in the court proceedings despite JR's plans to do so. Ellie was strong and JR capitulated. Jock and Miss Ellie would come down hard on JR, and he would stop whatever he was up to when they insisted he stop. This was well established by the time Jim Davis died, so the loss of Jock had a huge effect on the show, but they still had Miss Ellie to rein in JR.

When Barbara Bel Geddes left the show due to health problems, the producers knew they had to have Miss Ellie or they'd lose that strong parent dynamic. Otherwise, JR would run wild and unchecked. Unfortunately, Donna Reed was just not a match for the character dynamic. Miss Ellie could be a spit fire and BBG was not afraid to show that. Donna Reed was far too restrained.

That's interesting, R197. I had never read that BBG's manager had tried and failed to negotiate with producers before she left to lighten her workload. Speaking of which, R196, even if you are only in a few scenes, in an ensemble show, you can be on set for sometimes 16-18 hours a day waiting to shoot your scenes based on schedules. At her age and with her health problems, that grind of long days and early mornings was simply too much for BBG. BBG definitely should have gone to Larry Hagman. He apparently was a great negotiator and got a lot of the actors things they wanted. In the end, Larry pushed to get her back on and told the producers to give her what she wanted.

Ugh, the Ben Stivers (Dream Season)/Wes Parmalee storyline. Not a good decision by the Dallas producers. As viewers, we had gone through enough. Jim Davis died and we all came to accept that Jock was gone. We even came to accept the Ellie-Clayton Farlow pairing. Then BBG leaves and we have Donna Reed, then Bobby dies and we get the Dream Season where Steve Forrest's character is first introduced as Ben Stivers. Then Bobby comes back and we have to deal with the fact that the Dream Season never happened. I was happy to ditch the Ben Stivers storyline, which was headed toward a is-this-or-isn't-it-Jock angle, then they bring back one of the storylines from the Dream Season that sucked. Stupid decision, bad storyline, and I was more than happy to see Wes Parmalee hit the road.

Interesting that BBG wanted a lighter workload, because when she came back for the dream season, immediately following Bobby's "death," the show totally leaned on her. Miss Ellie totally dominates the first few episodes of that season.

As she should have, by the way, given that Miss Ellie was mourning the sudden death of her son. I can't imagine Reed even attempting to go that raw in her performances.

The Wes Parmalee story would probably have worked a bit better if the viewers had known right away he wasn't Jock. But from what I heard they kept it ambiguous intentionally in case people were actually happy to have Jock back.

Have imposter stories actually ever worked in soaps? Cannot recall an example right now, but I may miss one or two.

Impostor stories are ridiculous. Aside from that fact that no one is an exact double, if the same actor is used, people's bodies and voices are all different. Not to mention personalities. Just lazy writing.

I admit I liked the Katherine/Marge story on Y&R. But, yes, they are ridiculous.

Especially the quintessential, "I had sex with my husband/wife, but it felt different this time."

R209/R210 - the WORST was the "impostor Pam" story that they peddled towards the end of the series - well after Victoria Principal had left for good. Nothing about it was good in any way. Embarrassing.

R212 she wasn’t Pam , only resembled her. If you’re talking about the real estate agent that Margaret Michaels played. When she played Pam briefly in the 1988 opening episode, Cliff didn’t question it was her. In the TNT reboot its too bad she wasn’t proven as an imposter and they should’ve recast Pam. Man it would’ve been great to have Principal return briefly, but they were right to finally kill the character and give the fans some closure.

R213, of course she wasn't Pam but the writers were definitely hinting that the character might have been Pam (after lots of plastic surgery post-explosion - and obviously amnesia LOL). Whatever the case, it made for a weak story line in my book.

[quote]I admit I liked the Katherine/Marge story on Y&R. But, yes, they are ridiculous.

I love impostor storylines - ridiculous as they are - and I thought that was probably one of the best done I have ever seen. Plus it didn't hurt that Marge was hilarious and Cooper had a ball with it. Bill Bell used to drag everything out until we were screaming in pain, but for some reason wrapped that one up in about sixty seconds. Sometimes when I'm doing dishes or lugging laundry around I look at the dog and say 'that Abbott woman. is a bitch!'

A hail to dubbing. I watched Dallas in Germany in the 80s where it was dubbed with German voice actors. When Donna Reed took over from BBG, they kept the same voice actress which really helped with the transition. They also used the same actress to dubb Victoria Principle and Margaret Michaels in both roles she played. When she was playing the Pam doppelganger real estate agent the voice definitely supported Bobby's bewilderness. I thought using the same voice actress was a smart move. It was the one advantage that dubbing can have.

For Wes Parmalee they used a different voice than Jock's, which made sense because Wes had mentioned that his vocal cords had been surgically changed.

I always thought they brought on the Pam lookalike to wrap up Bobby's unresolved feelings for Pam so they could put him with April. I always liked Bobby with April. I remember seeing scenes with them together before they matched them up romantically and thought they'd make a good couple. Nothing could ever match Bobby and Pam. They were primetime soap royalty as far as couples go. But April was a good pairing for Bobby--the reformed bad girl. Then they killed her off in the last season.

I always wondered if the producers were hoping in that last season to get Victoria Principal back for the last episode or two to wrap up the Bobby/Pam storyline, although I guess they had a couple seasons earlier when Pam/Not Pam is told she had six months to live (too much like Mark Grayson if you ask me). I thought maybe that was why they killed off April, but Sheree J. Wilson has said that everyone knew it was the last season, she was pregnant and wanted to leave the show, so she worked with Leonard Katzman to have April killed off. I guess Katzman always regretted doing that.

Pam leaving was handles d so poorly. She's disfigured so she bails on her family entirely? It didn't track with Pam's character that she'd leave her husband and child like that. It was a poor choice by producers, but just one of many as the show sank further and further in quality. It was sad to see something that was once so good fall so far.

Pam should have decided that Bobby would always cause her distress in her life, vis a vis his never-ending feud with JR and his love child with Jenna, taken Christopher and left him and Dallas for good.

It would have been an honest and organic end for their storyline, freed him up for other romantic entanglements and left the door open for her return.

But no, it was handled and written very badly, and viewers never got any sort of real closure for their investment in the Bobby-Pam saga.

R218 I think they wanted to get a good cliffhanger out of it. There were initial plans to recast the character, but producer Leonard Katzman changed his mind. Most likely due to Donna Reed. If you watch Pam’s crash on YouTube (too lazy to link it) no one could’ve survived that crash. The show took one too many hits when Principal left. Bel Geddes leaving and her inferior recast, Duffy leaving and the ridiculous way they brought him back, asking loyal viewers to completely disregard one seasons worth of episodes (dream season). The audience left in droves even before Principal left.

I agree with you, R218, and that would have been a good way to send off Pam. But the show had just brought back Bobby and reunited him with Pam the season that she left. Victoria Principal had told producers she planned on leaving, and I think they were stunned when she followed through. I think they rushed a storyline, but didn't want to kill off Pam or replace Victoria Principal given what had happened trying those things in the preceding 2-3 seasons. Pam leaving was probably the final nail in the coffin after two seasons of asking viewers to absorb a lot of bad storylines. The show was losing viewers as R219 pointed out, but I wouldn't say in droves at that point.

The Dream Season, although it's trashed by critics and fans, actually was had more viewers in the millions than after Bobby returned. I remember always reading about how Duffy's return led to higher ratings, and maybe that was true initially, but that season had some silly and boring storylines (e.g., B.D. Calhoun) and those initially higher ratings dropped back down. However, the Dream Season and the one that followed were nearly the same as far as viewers in the millions, with the Dream Season actually just slightly ahead. But as far as Nielsen ratings go, the Dream Season was #6 and the following season was #11, which is a pretty big drop. After Pam left, it dropped out of the Top 20 and was never inside it again. I think that's when the viewer exodus really began.

The dream season saw enormous growth in the female characters and had - at least in its first half - some powerful and moving episodes.

Bringing Bobby back from the dead, erasing all that growth. Pam, who had become independent and wealthy, happily moving back into a guest bedroom at Southfork was utterly ridiculous. She was much more compelling on her own, and the aborted storyline of Pam and JR - mortal enemies - running Ewing Oil together should have been plumbed for years.

But no. Hagman, Duffy and Katzman had to have their misogynist way, convinced that DALLAS was more BONANZA than soap opera, and the women were sidelined and the actresses playing them fled.

I don't blame Principal at all for leaving when she did. What happened to her character was a disgrace.

They should’ve left Bobby dead. Dallas was tremendously undermined by the way they brought him back. I equate the post dream season to squeezing toothpaste back into a tube. I really don’t know it lasted four more years after Principal, Gray, Kanaly, leaving. The younger characters they brought on added nothing to the show. (Cally ugh).

The Dream Season solution was idiotic. If they had really thought about it, they could've created another explanation, which might have strained credibility, but would have been much better than negating a whole season of the show, that people had watched. I currently binging the show and I'm trying to decide if I should skip that season or not.

[quote] If they had really thought about it, they could've created another explanation, which might have strained credibility, but would have been much better than negating a whole season of the show,

What would that be? Bear in mind that he died on camera in front of his whole family. There really was no remotely viable way to do it, this was the least bad option.

R224 Daytime soaps have done it. If nothing else, they could have explained that some enemy of the Ewings, gave him a drug in the hospital that made it look like his heart had stopped, then held him in some secluded locale. It would have been stupid, but still less stupid than negating a whole season.

R224 daytime soaps have been dealing with this stuff for decades. Where there’s a will there’s a way. Even completely ignoring it happened would’ve been better then making an entire season a dream. It was a big fuck you to fans who cried tears when Bobby died. Leonard Katzman just didn’t want to deal with anything connected to the dream season and took the lazy way out. A talented writing staff can overcome anything on a top rated soap.

Don't skip the Dream Season r223. It's great. BBG, Linda Gray and Victoria Principal are absolutely terrific in the first half. Powerful scenes of Miss Ellie and Pam grieving, LG just going for broke as Sue Ellen hits rock bottom, and then all three characters rebuilding. Pam becoming stronger and a smart businesswoman

I also liked Bobby with April r217. Good chemistry. It was obvious VP wasn't coming back so I am glad they gave Bobby another romance. But then she was killed off quickly after they got together. I didn't realize it was mostly Sheree championing April's death. Seems like an odd way to go out as it was the last season anyway.

There was talk that there would be a Bobby imposter.

[quote]If nothing else, they could have explained that some enemy of the Ewings, gave him a drug in the hospital that made it look like his heart had stopped, then held him in some secluded locale.

He was buried on Southfork. They saw his dead body.

R228 Did they have an open casket funeral? Even then, they could have said it was a doppelganger , that was part of the conspiracy. Like I said it would have been stupid, but it still would have been better than negating a whole season of the show.

April was better as a vixen. I really couldn’t stand her with Bobby. The better option was having Bobby with Jenna after Pam’s departure. But Priscilla left a year after Victoria. Maybe Morgan Fairchild should’ve returned around this time as Jenna haha.

I don't understand why they remarried Bobby and Pam so quickly after the dream season. Once that was done there was nothing left to do for Pam anymore. If there was some uncertainty about VP signing on for a couple more years, they could have just left them separated or maybe just engaged for a couple more months. Pam leaving Dallas would have made a lot more sense if they still had been separated.

Bringing Bobby back as part of a conspiracy could have worked if the story had been well written. It could have been a season long story arch where the real truth comes out just in increments. That type of story telling with a seasonal arch wasn't that common back then, but obviously Dallas could have pulled it off because they already had. It could have been a year long mystery.

R230, Priscilla Presley had zero chemistry with Patrick Duffy, so a Jenna/Bobby pairing would have been awful. Jenna was always going to be Bobby's first love, but one he moved on from when he found his soulmate in Pam. The times they had Jenna come on, even she knew that. I think even Priscilla Presley played Jenna that way, that deep down she knew Bobby really loved Pam.

Oh well, the show was on Season 10 when Bobby came back. It was getting long in the tooth and running out of ideas and storylines. I think they should have ended it when Bobby died. But of course it was still a ratings juggernaut at that time, so they ground out several more seasons.

I vaguely recall some stupid episode or sequel or something with Joel Grey as the devil. Just horrible. Was that a one off just for kicks?

That was the finale. It was a "It's A Wonderful Life" kind of setup where J.R. is shown how things would have worked (better and worse) if he'd never been born. A shot is heard but it's not clear what happened.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s, a bunch of series did an It's a Wonderful Life take-off (Facts of Life, Days of Our Lives, Married With Children, even Tiny Toons).

Besides the dumb plot, I really hated the Dallas series finale. I remember being annoyed they brought back Ted and Joan Van Ark, who appeared in less than 10 episodes, but Victoria Principal, BBG, Susan Howard or Charlene Tilton didn't appear. (Tho, maybe they were asked and declined?)

Dallas could have been a much bigger hit if they had brought me on board to play a character named Iris Cory Carrington Delaney Bancroft Wheeler who moved to Dallas from Bay City via Houston.

Ugh, the series finale was one of the worst I've ever seen. It felt like a fuck you to the fans. I'd bailed a few years before, after Season 10. But of course I had to check back in to see the series finale. I couldn't believe what a waste of time that was.

R237 - well said. When watching the series in syndication, it was obvious that entire show was in the toilet by then (the decline was particularly obvious after VP's car explosion). The finale was so terrible however that it definitely stood out as being malodorous. REALLY BAD.

Principal I’ve read was going to do the last episode of the CBS series with the guarantee it was going to be the last episode. They couldn’t make her this promise. She denies this, so who knows. They followed up the Dallas CBS show with two movies and the TNT version, so technically it wasn’t the end of the Ewing saga.

I did not hate the finale, and thought it was smart to end on a cliffhanger about JR and a gunshot, since that evoked the most famous story Dallas ever had. Their longtime Friday night companion, Falcon Crest, actually had the better ending. After, a crappy ninth season, that didn't even seem like Falcon Crest, Jane Wyman came back for the final three episodes, the show felt like it used to once again, and Wyman got to give one of the best ending monologues I have ever heard on a tv show, and wrote it herself as a tribute to the show and a love letter to the fans. Dallas should have moved heaven and earth, to get BBG back for the finale to deliver something similar about Southfork.

r220 wow it really sounds like Pam leaving was the beginning of the end for the show going by that stark statistical fact. I had no idea it had that effect. Hence I suppose why they enticed Charlene Tilton back to tempt viewers back who had their fondest memories of the show with the original cast.

R241 Watching the show now, I don't understand why VP was so popular, she was NOT a great actress and Pam was a whiny, whiny woman.

Princiipal's acting was very uneven on the show. The mini-series she is great. She is a legitimate foe for JR. She's smart and a little sassy. They pretty much diluted Pam's character until the dream season, where she regains the smart and sass from the mini-series. The lowest low for Pam was when she pined over having a baby.

The season Bobby returns, Pam regresses again to just being Bobby's wife. I don't blame her for leaving.

R243 Yes, I liked her during the mini-series, but then she got worse and worse. The Dream Season is the next one for me to binge, so I'm glad she will be better in it. Right now I'm watching her search for Mark Grayson and she is pathetic.

Do we know if behind the scenes certain actors did not get on with each other?

Yes, everyone disliked Donna Reed.

I don't think that's actually true. Professionally, everybody agreed that she was miscast. I remember statements from Howard Keele and obviously Larry Hagman. But I never heard of statements that Reed was disliked as a person, and she never made a statement about her co-actors in this regard. Now, she had nothing nice to say about the producers, but that's different.

From interviews I got the impression that Hagman and Principal weren't very close. Not that they ever mentioned that. But there always seemed to be the Hagman Crew, with Duffy, Gray, Tilton. Allegedly BBG was in that group, too. But her close tie to Hagman seems more like PR to me than being for real. Principal by her own account stayed by herself and was on her own.

I always liked the scenes between Hagman and Principal. They always had that Mars vs Venus chemistry where one really had no handle on the other ones' approach on how to handle things. It's not that the character simply hated each other. There was always a little bit of respect left and a mutual (!) caution not to underestimate the other one. I wish these two had had more scenes with each other.

R247 I do have to agree about the respect part, JR hated Cliff but didn't respect him, and Cliff hated but at the same time seemed to worship JR. But with Pam, JR clearly hated her but feared and respected her and Pam hated JR, but respected him as and adversary.

Yes, the scenes between Hagman and Principal were great. And their long-standing feud was established in the mini-series and was basically what the show was centered around - the feud between JR and Pam, and the Ewings and the Barnes on a larger scale.

Good point, r248. Pam was always smarter than Cliff. Cliff was kind of pathetic so he was always losing to JR. But Pam was smarter. It's a shame they didn't explore Pam further as a businesswoman. They toyed with it a few times and especially in the dream season, but it was never consistent. I love the scene where Pam threatens to join Cliff and Jamie to take down JR. JR is legitimately threatened. It's one of the few times Hagman didn't have final say in a scene. JR knows he can squash Cliff and Jamie; but Pam is another story. Because Pam could always see through JR and JR knew it.

R2, they should not have killed off Digger or Rebecca; Priscilla Pointer is still alive now at 94 so she could have done Dallas revival perhaps, certainly could have worked through original run.

Keenan Wynn (Digger #2) died in 1986; David Wayne (Digger #1) died in 1995.

freaking loved this show

R250 Agreed Priscilla Pointer as Rebecca was perfection. Watching now, I was shocked at how much Rebecca reminded me of an actual Texan, former First Lady Laura Bush, they looked like they could have been sisters.

I suppose producers can't predict which older actors will die first; and Rebecca was JR.'s most formidable foe. She had money; she had power. And she had that mama lion protective instinct with her kids.

Her death caused a rift between Bobby and Pam, which had to happen for them to reunite.

Still, I might have found another way if I were a producer and knew what was ahead.

Yeah, it's odd because the Ewings dominated but the Barnes were always smaller in numbers. Digger died too early. Rebecca died too early. They made Katherine sleep with JR quickly and become unhinged too. They all had the potential to be worthy foes to the Ewings.

They really wasted Katherine. Morgan Brittney was just too beautiful to have not become a bigger star.

R253, boy, that's the truth!

They hinted at it in one of the CBS reunion movies, but I really wish Bobby and Sue Ellen had gotten together at some point. I loved the way Bobby clearly loved and supported her, in ways that JR didn't or couldn't.

Can anyone recall the season the set only version of Southfork Ranch comes into play? I'm in series 4 now and there seem to be some indoor shots on the Southfork patio where they are careful to show actors only and not too much of the scenery around them, but eventually this becomes a much more expansive set, with a tiny little version of the Southfork swimming pool with some Texas matt drawings around them.

Not sure I understand your question right. They always had the studio set of the patio. Typically, they filmed on the real outside patio of the ranch for the first twelve episodes of the season. They started a season by filming indoor shots for the first six episodes of the season in Culver City for a couple weeks. Then they packed up and moved to Dallas for location/outside shots for up to twelve weeks, covering the first twelve episodes. That's how you get to see Southfork's real exterior. After those weeks they did another six weeks interior shots in Culver City, covering episodes 7 - 12 of the season. That's how they filmed the first dozen episodes of the season. From that point on, all remaining episodes were shot in strictly sequential order. I think it was season 11 or 12 when they stopped filming in Dallas altogether.

I've been to Southfork - that's how desperate you can get for something to do in Dallas - and the pool is very small on location too. Typical backyard inground. The house is basically an early McMansion. Doesn't seem like either an old historic ranch or a millionaire's mansion. I didn't go inside. I gather nothing inside resembles the show.

R259 If you watch the TNT Dallas, the reason Southfork looks different inside is, because they actually film in the house. During the original the interior of "Southfork" was originally filmed at a Dallas home known as the Swiss house, and then the producers recreated the interior of the Swiss House on soundstages.

It would have been interesting if they had written Lucy into Ewing Oil. I love the relationship between her and JR.

According to Charlene Tilton, Larry Hagman was not happy when the producers got rid of Lucy, and he lobbied for her comeback. I do think they could have found ways to integrate Lucy better. Starting with Mitch, they seemed to separate her storylines from the rest of the family. Lucy and Mitch were actually a very popular couple, but the show broke them up fairly quickly. After that, they didn't seem to know what to do with Lucy. The could have tried to stretch out the Lucy/Mitch storyline by teasing getting them back together. After Mitch left, she had her storyline with Mickey Trotter, Ray's nephew, but that was also separate from the family.

Lucy was an original cast member. The show could have done more interesting things with her, especially since she was one of the few family members who saw through JR and could go toe-to-toe with him. Too bad they missed that opportunity.

Pam was such a unlikable and cold character.

[quote] It would have been interesting if they had written Lucy into Ewing Oil.

She could have got Mrs. Trumbull to watch Little Ricky while she and Ethel had hilarious escapades getting completely doused with oil at one of the wells on the Southfork Ranch!

I don't think Charlene was a strong enough actress to carry huge storylines. I thought she was okay in the rape and Mickey Trotter stories and she was funny when she would trade barbs with JR but up against Gray or BBG she wasn't as strong.

Lucy should have moved to Knots Landing for the ,85-86 season, Val coulda had a big family reunion, with her getting her twins back too at the time and Lucy and Abby would have been clawing each other for Empire Valley and Gary

R259 - I have been to Southfork also. Not only is the house itself nothing special, but it is not located in a glamorous part of the city either. Granted, the show never really claimed that it was in some fancy neighborhood - but Dallas has HUGE, phenomenal estates that would blow Southfork away easily. There are so many uber-fancy areas of the city that it would take too long to elaborate, but the acreage in parts of Bluffview and Preston Hollow would have fit the bill (outside of the cow fields I suppose). Estates located in the Sunnybrook, Old Preston Hollow and Straight Lane vicinity will blow most minds - many look like castles and sit on huge acreage.

I always thought Southfork was outside Dallas... recall mention of Braddock, from time to time, which I thought was the nearest town and where the sheriff the Ewings had in their pocket was headquartered.

I far prefer the original ranch house... I know they couldn't keep using it and it burned, but if felt much truer to the story. And it was working ranch in Frisco, north and west of Dallas proper.

R269 yes Southfork was supposed to be located in Braddock, not Dallas proper. It makes sense storywise that the ranch would be well outside of Dallas, because it was established as being a working cattle ranch dating back to the 1800s. Not some oil executive's hobby ranch. They also did explain why the house looked more modern than what would have been expected. It was mentioned several times throughout the show, that Jock built the house we see on the series to replace the earlier Southworth ranch house when it became too small for the family. In fact when they had the fire at the end of Season 7, beginning of Season 8, the architect was still active, in business. So it was only supposed to be a few decades old, at most, on the original Dallas..

This is the Southfork Ranch. It is located way outside of the city and certainly is the not the gorgeous home that R268 posted. I can see why they used a different home's interiors for the first season though. Again, R268's house is in one of the neighborhoods that I listed above - Sunnybrook (no surprise that this is a gorgeous home - I am just surprised that they didn't use the exteriors as well..).

That makes sense R270. Thanks!

It is remarkable how much sets and scenery 'make' a TV show. The Southfork ranch seems to be as much of a character as the actual regular actors. I remember how annoyed I was when they didn't recreate the Carrington mansion interior for the reunion movies, or when they changed the layout of Southfork for the TNT series. When that show had another fire of the house, the executive producer was playing with the idea to rebuild the exterior with CGI, adding a new wing to the house for the next season if the show had been renewed. I thought that was ridiculous and just another example for Cynthia Cidre not understanding what works for Dallas and what doesn't.

Yes, houses symbolize families and their state in life and often become iconic on their own. Time for a new thread!

R274 They really do, just thinking off the top of my head the house really was important and almost its own character on so many great shows, Dallas, Falcon Crest, The Waltons, The Brady Bunch, All In The Family, Bonanza, The Big Valley, Little House on the Prairie(of course), and all the cul-de-sac houses on Knots Landing,

When they brought Sue Ellen's mother Patricia back during the dream season, she all of a sudden looked like Angela Channing, I wonder if it was on purpose or not?

This is what she looked like during her first stint on the show.

Whether wearing a hat or not, Patricia's wigs were thirsty!

I never watched an episode. I’d read about the cast changes, and wonder how some niche starlet like Merete Van Kamp or Lois Chiles or Barbara Carrera was doing on the show ... but frankly I just couldn’t get excited about a story set in TEXAS!

R279 If you can't get excited about Texas, you have no imagination, and are quite frankly an uninteresting person.

And then of course there was the incestuous affair between Lucy and Uncle Ray

R281 That was always funny, because after they made Ray a Ewing, his history with Lucy was just ignored. I guess they figured they could by with it, since reruns didn't start airing until a few years later, but I'm sure it freaked some people out who hadn't seen the first seasons until they entered syndication.

Has anyone ever watched the Susan Hayward movie Tulsa? I picked it up years ago on a budget DVD, and it really looks like an early version of Dallas. I have to wonder if David Jacobs might have seen it on the late night movie, when he was creating Dallas.

[quote]R280 If you can't get excited about Texas, you have no imagination, and are quite frankly an uninteresting person.

It just seems dusty and stupid. Cows, oil ... did anything of real value ever come out of there? I mean, Farrah FAWCETT was from Texas, for god’s sake.

Lois Chiles was actually involved in a great story line. J.R. played a season long dirty game with Holly, and Holly took no prisoners getting out of this game. And Holly's scene with jealous Katherine Wentworth were sizzling. Holly should have become a regular.

Re-watching Tulsa, R283, I noticed something right at the beginning, the title Tulsa zooms out in yellow, over a shot of the Tulsa skyline, just like Dallas. There had to be some homage or something going on here. I wonder if there was anyone left alive that worked on that film, when Dallas came out, who thought they were being copied?

[quote]R285 Lois Chiles was actually involved in a great story line ... her Holly should have become a regular.

Lois Chiles is a SCOUNDREL

R281 and R282, I'm sure R282 is right about most viewers not knowing about Ray and Lucy hooking up. After the original 5-episode miniseries, which didn't get very high ratings, the first season of Dallas as a regular series was on Saturday nights, which was pretty much owned by ABC's duo of Love Boat and Fantasy Island, so Dallas wasn't very highly rated in the first part of its initial run. CBS moved Dallas to Friday nights halfway through the season, and that's when it started to take off in the ratings.

Ray was revealed as Jock's son in December 1980 (the episode was titled "The Fourth Son"). At that time, it's a good bet that most Dallas viewers hadn't seen the original 5-episode miniseries, or even half of the first season of the regular series. I remember my first episode I watched on Friday night was the return of Julie Grey played by Tina Louise (Ginger from Gilligan's Island). After Julie Grey dies from falling off a roof while being pursued by two guys from the Cartel, I was hooked on the show and made it regular Friday night viewing.

During summer reruns, I caught up on the first season of the regular series. It wasn't until Dallas went into syndication in the fall of 1984 that I saw the original 5-episode miniseries and realized Ray and Lucy had messed around.

If she was doing a commercial for anything R287 it should have been for a hot oil treatment...

Lois Chiles was one beautiful woman. Dallas wasted her, because it was one of the few times her acting was good/decent.

Wasn't Chiles Bill Paley's mistress? I think DL reported that some years back.

Was Chiles in Last Picture Show?

Morgan Woodward, an actor born in Fort Worth who took on guest roles in Gunsmoke, Star Trek and Dallas, died Friday in Paso Robles, Calif. The actor, who grew up in Arlington, was 93.

He played the role of Punk Anderson, a trusted adviser to the Ewing family, in 55 episodes of Dallas, which ran from 1978 to 1991.

He earned praise for his role as Boss Godfrey alongside Paul Newman in the 1967 prison drama Cool-Hand Luke.

-------------------

Excellent tough guy character actor.

and notice he was NOT wearing the Enterprise arrowhead symbol. Pay attention Discovery.

R293 I loved every time Punk showed up on Dallas.

Other than Della Street on Perry Mason, did any show other than Dallas have such great secretaries as Sly, Phyllis and Jackie. I grew up wanting Sly to be my secretary.

I'm not sure Jackie was such an effective secretary. She never had any work on her desk. They didn't even make an effort to make her look busy. She was really just sitting there to answer Cliff's or Pam's question if he is in or of there were calls. At least Sly and Phyllis pretended to file something.

To be fair to Jackie, she worked for Cliff Barnes. He was so hapless at business, she probably didn't have much work to do.

[quote]R292 Was Chiles in Last Picture Show?

No, that was Cybill Shepherd, another former model.

I know there is great affection for the original three-way split opening, but I'm I the only one that really liked the opening for the last two years that started with the dam blowing up.

Dallas has been done to death here.

Patrick Duffy's body was a gift to behold every Friday night.

Then don't read the thread, R301.

Loved the show and occasionally will pop an episode on and watch on Amazon Prime. It's usually more interesting than most of the current stuff on TV.

Bobby was hotter than JR IMHO.

Never saw one episode of this or the other night time soaps.

Every woman on Southfork fucked Ray Krebbs. Well maybe Miss Ellie didn't but I'm still watching the first season.

Did Sue Ellen's pussy stink? In the episode I just watched she tries to seduce JR and he literally runs from the house, jumps in his car, and speeds away.

The episode where Lucy finds out her fiance is gay is quite progressive for the 70s. Kit breaks off their engagement because he likes being gay and he's not going to change.

[quote] Henderson is straight and has a child out of wedlock.

We're all adults here. You may use the word "bastard".

R306, she did say Ray, get me the shotgun! Maybe it was a euphemism.

I would have loved it if in the final season of Dallas, after April'd been killed in Paris, Bobby comes home, he keeps seeing someone who looks like Pam. At first it was a double -- then we learn the real Pam was alive and the show ends with Bobby and Pam back together; JR sharing a tentative reunion with Sue Ellen.

Miss Ellie and Clayton come home from Europe. Ray dumps Jenna for Donna. Lucy and Mitch visit. Cliff ends up with Afton.

Lucy never invited her friend Muriel to any of the pool parties at Southfork?

I liked the original Southfork but not the McMansion, though it became the Tara of Dallas, as it were.

the original one looks MUCH bigger

Charline Tilton was a terrible actress, but cute and sexy! I loved reading the stories about the cast in The Enquirer. They said that Larry Hagman hated Linda Gray and even used to bark at her. Well he was drinking three bottles of champagne on the set everyday.

There are gay bars in Texas named after this show

One is called JR's and the other is called Sue Ellen's

Would love to go to them

Ahh, the days when Bobby pranced around in his Speedo!

Dallas holds some negative memories for this gal. My grandmother died from fume intoxication when she opened my boudoir door and caught me fingering myself to Ms. Ellie on some Friday night in 1980 or so.

I loved Timothy Patrick Murphy's hairy chest.

The rest of my family gathered around the TV back in the day. Never got into it. More a DYNASTY fan.

[quote] My only female crush EVER would have been Morgan Brittany. Lovely lady.

Mogan Brittney is a right-wing conservative.

[quote] Agreed Priscilla Pointer as Rebecca was perfection. Watching now, I was shocked at how much Rebecca reminded me of an actual Texan, former First Lady Laura Bush, they looked like they could have been sisters.

She was good but was the worst dressed of all the women on the show. The wardrobe people tried to make her look like a high-powered business woman but she looked more like a1950's school librarian.

R323 At least she looked like she had money. I loved Barbara Bel Geddes and Miss Ellie, but she did not dress like either the daughter of old Texas money or as the wife of an oil tycoon, when she was supposed to be both. Her style was much more J. C. Penney than Neiman Marcus.

No one has mentioned Katherine Wentworth - the broad who ran Bobby over before it was all a dream. As a young gayling, I liked her. The opposite of Pam (piss and moan). Lucy was fun because she gave J.R. the shit he deserved. They had a great scene upon her return to South Fork:

Katherine Wentworth was played by Morgan Brittany, so yes she has been mentioned.

I'm finishing up season 6, and there hasn't been much in the way of catfights. The closest was Donna Krebbs decking that bar hag Ray was sleeping with. I was hoping to see Miss Ellie get in a catfight with that Wentworth woman when she came storming onto South Fork to tell her the Barnes/Ewing feud was back on.

It's a shame Lucy's homely friend, Muriel, didn't get a juicy storyline.

That's ok, she got her eventual revenge by becoming the Ruler of DL.

Susan Howard is a homophobe.

The tabloids asserted that one daring storyline never even made it to the air. Originally, Barbara Carerra was supposed to be involved in a lesbian relationship with her female assistant (played by Merete Van Kamp), but Larry Hagman, Susan Howard (who's a born-again Christian), and Barbara Bel Geddes all threatened to walk if that storyline was actually played out. They were adamant about keeping Dallas a family-oriented show - and they ultimately got their way.

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